kind of the foreign policy realists of the reagan, bush and clinton campaigns who liked hagel, a republican himself, and they've done a couple newspaper ads and some web activity but it's bn kind of paled next to the conservative onslaught >> woodruff: and they are able to get away with not revealing who they are, why? >> well, citizens united, the supreme court case of a couple years ago, gave donors confidence that they could get involved in these groups. there would be no legal trouble. now these groups could have existed but it gave confidence so it started a growing trend of anonymously funded groups coming along for whatever the battle of the day is. citizens unid inhe mix. we also at the same time have these operatives who run these groups, have become very good at setting them up with nothing to do this year. so it's kind of a perfect storm >> woodruff: you also talked to them, jim, i saw in your reporting. for all the money that was spent against president obama last year, that was a campaign that wasn't successful. you talked to them about that and about why they think it's worth